tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post1608794948963216035..comments2024-03-17T00:57:53.558-07:00Comments on The Adventures of Notorious Ph.D., Girl Scholar: Grades in Grad SchoolNotorious Ph.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-81405720860274290402015-07-03T14:10:28.941-07:002015-07-03T14:10:28.941-07:00I totally agree with the above post.
I have perso...I totally agree with the above post.<br /><br />I have personally met many stupid people with Master's and PhD degrees - I kid you not.<br /><br />Some think that they can coast easily through life on the coattails of their grad degree/s - they have this grandiose sense of entitlement. They erroneously believe that the possession of a grad degree makes them geniuses. Book smarts and life smarts are two completely different things. It is so sad that PhD students are basically used as slave labour by professor/supervisors who are sitting high on their horses using the free labour. 10 years of grad school equates to 10 years of lost income. And many spend the best years of their lives in grad school. When it comes to education, get the most you can, for the least you can for the career of your choice. And then get out, and get on with life. Progress in life comes from becoming a master in your chosen career, from hands on practical experience, not from a master's degree. In other words, if you want to become a writer, then write. Books don't make you an expert, but actually doing something does. Granted, certain professions like medicine and law require the proper training and credentials. But for 99% of the careers out there - no.Sallynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-81221730377236555712015-07-03T09:32:56.574-07:002015-07-03T09:32:56.574-07:00The discussions that grad students have are always...The discussions that grad students have are always replete with superficiality. If getting a B in a course is such a concern, then maybe staying in the superficial world of grad school is where one should be - insulated from the real world. Success in life does not hinge on getting straight A's. Come on people, get real. If getting a B is cause for such worry, then how will you deal with the endless disappointments that one will invariably be faced with all throughout life. Most of the websites are right: avoid grad school at all costs. Grad school is not synonymous with success in life. Some careers require grad degrees, but for 99% of good careers a grad degree is simply not needed. Too many people want a grad degree for the wrong reasons i.e., an ego stroke. If one needs a grad degree to feel good, then one will never feel good about, no matter how many advanced degrees are hanging on the wall. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-36288176586573570722015-05-06T12:43:14.238-07:002015-05-06T12:43:14.238-07:00She's "the only person [you] want to work...She's "the only person [you] want to work with." She agreed to chair your thesis. Prove to her you can do better than that B.<br /><br />If you're obsessing over the B, do as Notorious suggests and ask her about it, and what you need to work on, moving forward.<br /><br />10 years ago I got a B and a B+ as an MA student. Now I'm a doctoral candidate with straight A's. But it doesn't matter. Publishing matters more, and the actual degree matters way more than a few grades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-54896464799666488872015-04-28T23:26:28.008-07:002015-04-28T23:26:28.008-07:00I'm in a dilemma about B's in grad school....I'm in a dilemma about B's in grad school. I received a B in my supervisor's course, and she was already my supervisor before I enrolled in the course. Now, I'm about to start thesis with her and I'm unsure if I should stick with her as an advisor. I'm afraid that even though I can push to improve and show her that I can do better, that the B may still look bad on me in the long run. She might not write me a strong recommendation letter and then I won't get into any PhD program. <br /><br />She's the only advisor I want to work with as the other person working in my field is on a leave for a while. Can anyone shed some light on the matter? IAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-52930840627638300102015-04-25T17:58:17.360-07:002015-04-25T17:58:17.360-07:00Anonymous, don't read more into it than I inte...Anonymous, don't read more into it than I intended. A B is a respectable grade under any circumstances. And it all depends on the discipline and your professional goals. Getting a graduate degree for enrichment is an excellent thing to do, and doing so while working full time means that something's got to give. And it may be that standards are different in your program. <br /><br />My best advice is not "give up." Nor is it "be complacent." It's "talk with your adviser." Ask for a frank assessment of how you're doing, and advice for making the most of your time in grad school.<br />Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-85758379748171052382015-04-25T17:40:59.599-07:002015-04-25T17:40:59.599-07:00Well I am 50 in a Phd program and am happy with a ...Well I am 50 in a Phd program and am happy with a B even a B-. I work a full time jobs, two part time jobs and take full time classes ( 3) So now you are saying that I should just give up and quit. That because there are times that it becomes impossible due to life issues to get 100% on everything. At 50 I have learned that you never give up but keep pushing forward. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-87346717532361188322014-10-30T14:26:31.365-07:002014-10-30T14:26:31.365-07:00I'm in my first semester of grad school (MA pr...I'm in my first semester of grad school (MA program) in Anthropology, and I plan to continue to a PhD. I got my first midterm paper back today, and I got a B+. I've heard everything can be said about Bs for a class grade in grad school, but what about for a paper grade, especially in your first semester? Please help! Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-53143812653989192452013-05-14T15:02:36.025-07:002013-05-14T15:02:36.025-07:00You humanities people are nuts. In physics grad sc...You humanities people are nuts. In physics grad school, you get anywhere between a B- and and A. Doesn't matter at all! As long as you passed, that's good enough. If you fail, you take it again. Now finishing the research project is another matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-41753426735536317662011-04-25T09:36:03.972-07:002011-04-25T09:36:03.972-07:00Interesting, Ruth. Yes, departments can set their...Interesting, Ruth. Yes, departments can set their own floors for grading, so long as they're explicit with their students. We don't have funding here, but we do have something similar, a GPA that constitutes "satisfactory progress" in the program. <br /><br />And yes: our Grad Director lays this all out in the orientation meeting.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-31836564612852967312011-04-25T08:57:14.824-07:002011-04-25T08:57:14.824-07:00Late to the party here so I don't know if anyo...Late to the party here so I don't know if anyone will read this . . . <br /><br />I teach at a major PhD granting institution. It is explicit departmental policy that anything below a GPA of 3.5 is not considered satisfactory and could result in loss of funding. (Not "will automatically result"--everything is looked at on a case by case basis.<br /><br />When I give a "B" it doesn't mean "you should leave the program," but it means "if this is the best you can do you should leave the program." It may be true that future employers don't care about the transcript, and some students who did fairly pedestrian coursework write excellent dissertations, but in general, anyone who can't consistently do "A" work in classes is not likely to produce an excellent, job-getting dissertation. <br /><br />This, I think, is how it's different from the sciences--in my classes most of the course grade depends on the research & writing, it's practice for the dissertation research rather than taking time away from it.Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15083220779867874124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-50027951176347167282011-04-24T22:16:40.287-07:002011-04-24T22:16:40.287-07:00Yes to this. It's interesting because my scho...Yes to this. It's interesting because my school constantly emphasizes that "once you're out of school, no one will care about your grades". Of course not. All they'll care about at that point is if you've got 3+ published articles by the time you're defending your dissertation. But it's a factor in funding and it's a factor in other areas of the department. <br /><br />But it isn't always (as Dr Crazy noted) just because you're not up to par. Sometimes, definitely. But occasionally, you can pick out patterns among teachers that has nothing, necessarily, to do with performance. I know of someone who took a class where all the first years got B's, and all the second years got A's. I've been told by some profs that they *have* to give half the class A's and the other half B's...even if perhaps more than half do A-level work. (Likewise, I've seen curves the size of the planet's rotation just to give half the class A's.) <br /><br />What frustrated me was how little my family understood. My first B in grad school was devastating and my mother just did not understand. I was so sure it was the end of my grad school career and explaining to her how a B is (practically) seen as a F in grad school and she just kept repeating, "they can't treat it like that! A B is nothing to be ashamed of and if it hurts you in the department, you bring that up to the Dean". I guess you just don't understand until you've been in academia!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-50166147817287316682011-04-13T20:22:21.536-07:002011-04-13T20:22:21.536-07:00I'll chime in with the other sciences people h...I'll chime in with the other sciences people here: in my first year of grad school, my adviser told me that she wanted to see me get at least one A (to show I could do it) and also at least one B (to show I could do that, too). She said that if I got straight As then I was not spending enough time on my research. I don't know if it's different in masters programs though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-35808971684045088112011-04-13T09:32:52.491-07:002011-04-13T09:32:52.491-07:00Oh, absolutely. And I did forget to say, "Non...Oh, absolutely. And I did forget to say, "None of this applies if the professor in question is nuts or the program you're in is totally dysfunctional." You'll need independent corroboration for those, of course.<br /><br />And, of course, either of those might also be valid reasons to get the hell out.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-29060782632869628302011-04-13T07:39:22.554-07:002011-04-13T07:39:22.554-07:00I got a B (in the intro to history class), a B+ in...I got a B (in the intro to history class), a B+ in another class, and over the course of 10 graduate seminars, only one A. The rest were A-minuses. So, not great.<br /><br />Was it a sign? Yeah. It was a sign that I didn't know what I was doing, but it was also a sign that I'd been abandoned by the faculty. I was taking courses in subjects I knew absolutely nothing about, because my advisor was on leave, there weren't any relevant courses, and nobody bothered to see what could be done to help a student who clearly didn't understand the seriousness of not having courses in her field. (My own advisor said nothing about the courses I chose to take, nor did we ever have a conversation about my grades. And yes, the sole A I got wasn't given to me by her.)<br /><br />So in theory, yes Bs are bad. But I'd say that sometimes they're signs of the program gone wrong, rather than a hopeless student. Years later, and I'm months away from finishing the diss, and I guess we'll see in the fall how hireable I am (the answer this year was largely no). Now part of the reason I'm still here is b/c my program isn't interested in weeding out students (for the most part) but really I'm here b/c I refused to quit and I was determined to make it work, even though I had no business succeeding--and I can almost guarantee that most people in my shoes, with my personal life, and with the pretty large-scale professorial abdication of any training obligations, would have quit.<br /><br />So to some degree, not discounting the issue of getting into a PhD program with a B in a masters' program, what you do with a B is up to you.thefrogprincesshttp://thefrogprincess.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-62595863113239559742011-04-12T23:12:59.313-07:002011-04-12T23:12:59.313-07:00I got a single B+ in grad school, when I'd rap...I got a single B+ in grad school, when I'd rapidly gotten married and separated within 2 months. To say I was in bad shape would be an understatement. I was absolutely terrified what my advisor would say. I still remember sitting in his office, watching him take off his glasses, peer at me, and say: It's ok, you don't have to prove yourself to me any more... in hindsight, that B+ paper was darn good, all things considered... and I did get a job. But I also would have dropped out, had he told me to. I didn't care at the time. What I want to say is, shit happens, but life, and grad school goes on, and sometimes it takes an advisor to put things into perspective.koshergritsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-44068651270704316732011-04-12T20:20:51.604-07:002011-04-12T20:20:51.604-07:00Sorry about the length! Thanks for reposting, NPhD...Sorry about the length! Thanks for reposting, NPhD!New Kid on the Hallwayhttp://newkidonthehallway.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-15857943888871784112011-04-12T16:36:32.530-07:002011-04-12T16:36:32.530-07:00My experience tallies with that most often noted h...My experience tallies with that most often noted here: a B is a sign, but what it's a sign of varies. For grad students, I would interpret my grades as: A= you're on the right path; A- or B+ = you've made the right turn, but haven't quite figured out how to ride the bicycle and B= I'm not sure you know the way to do this stuff.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716705206734059708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-6274147602692805742011-04-12T15:11:52.034-07:002011-04-12T15:11:52.034-07:00I failed statistics the first time I took it in co...I failed statistics the first time I took it in college.Comrade PhysioProfhttp://physioprof.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-44899171978112161102011-04-12T13:31:17.092-07:002011-04-12T13:31:17.092-07:00Here's part two of New Kid's original comm...Here's part two of New Kid's original comment:<br /><br /><i>I'll also throw one thing out there, though - there are those wacky faculty out there who pull weird stunts over grades. There was one prof in my program notorious for giving grad students Cs or even Ds - and while they may not have been the most brilliant grad students ever to grace the university, they did fine in their other courses; the dept seemed to recognize that the problem was the prof. Most grad students stayed far, far away from this prof and his classes, except some poor souls who were genuinely interested in the topic and didn't think it could be so bad. <br /><br />So I would definitely encourage the OP to find out the reasons for getting the B. It might be some weird fluke of some prof who feels zie needs to be "rigorous" and disagrees with the expectation that grad students should get As. Or (and this is probably more likely) it may be an honest criticism of the student's progress. However, I also don't think getting a B in one class in necessarily being told to give up - it may be a recognition of a legitimate weakness, or a moment of weakness, in an otherwise strong student. (Was there something different about this course from other courses? Different methodology? Different kind of final project? Were there personal circumstances affecting the person's performance in this particular class?) And I do think that someone applying to PhD programs can recover from one moment of weakness, IF they succeed in the rest of their courses, produce some really good work they can use to show their abilities, and they can get letters of recommendation that can explain/address the person's true abilities.<br /><br />But yeah, the OP should go find out what was up with the B, especially if they have no idea what made that class different from the others. If they want to go on to a PhD program, anyway. And if they do, I think *two* Bs is much harder to overcome than one. </i>Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-51995982061526870932011-04-12T13:30:42.293-07:002011-04-12T13:30:42.293-07:00Blogger ate New Kid's original comment, and wh...Blogger ate New Kid's original comment, and when I tried to repost, it got eaten again, so I think it was too long. So I'll post it for my readers in two installments:<br /><br /><i>This probably qualifies as ancient history by now, but: I got a B in the first year of my grad program (in a research course with my advisor, no less). I'm quite sure I deserved it, because I had no real idea how to do research based almost entirely in primary sources (I wrote a very good undergrad honors thesis, but it was actually more historiographical than anything else. In the opposite of a lot of undergrads, I think, I totally got historiography and scholarly conversation, but didn't really know how to generate primary research of my own). <br /><br />I'll also point out that like the OP, my B was from a school that didn't give +/-s, so you got a straight A or you got a straight B. Within the program, I think there was a sense whether a B was more of a B+ rather than a B-. (And the straight As covered a multitude of A- sins.) And like someone else has suggested, one B wasn't a problem as along as the rest of your grades were As. <br /><br />However, while I did an MA before my PhD, this was also in a program where everyone who wanted to went on from the MA to the PhD, so I never faced the need to explain the B to any outside folk (by the time I finished the program, really, no one cared a jot about one B 9 years earlier). So I can't say the B doesn't have any impact in going on to a PhD, should the OP want to do that. (Though I also know someone who got a few Bs in her first years - she ultimately switched fields, got a t-t job, got a second t-t job, and has published a very good book.)</i><br /><br />Part two follows...Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-50930582919127472522011-04-12T11:41:25.465-07:002011-04-12T11:41:25.465-07:00And just to be clear: I agree that a transcript is...And just to be clear: I agree that a transcript is probably more important in the MA-to-PhD transition than in the PhD-to-job transition. Very few job applications (though more than there used to be) ask for a transcript; they just want proof of degree completion.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-9921051741445672742011-04-12T11:38:44.903-07:002011-04-12T11:38:44.903-07:00Ewan & k:
I wonder if the difference here (th...Ewan & k:<br /><br />I wonder if the difference here (the difference between undergrad and grad) is what grades *mean.* Let me propose a thesis, to see what y'all think:<br /><br />For undergrads, the grade is your goal. It's the thing you're working to earn. It's the prize (or not) for all your hard work.<br /><br />For graduate students, the grade is just a way of communicating to you, in a language you are already trained to recognize, how you are doing in a journey that is much longer than one class or one semester. And lower grades may be a suggestion that you are headed in the wrong direction in that journey, and need to make a course correction.<br /><br />I think that's what I wanted to say in the original post, but I was too damn tired when I wrote it.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-92012309418203396322011-04-12T11:37:30.596-07:002011-04-12T11:37:30.596-07:00Just to throw a little more confusion into the dis...Just to throw a little more confusion into the discussion, the options in my grad program were H(igh Pass), P(ass), L(ow Pass), and F. (Many professors also gave grades like H- and P+, off the record, but +/- grades didn't appear on the official transcript.)<br /><br />I think some professors worked on the "I don't assign anything less than an H except as a clear warning signal" system, but others treated P as the default and H as the exception. In any case, most of us had some Ps on our transcripts, and I know of no one who got into trouble for having too many. (L, on the other hand, <i>was</i> a definite warning signal and pretty rare, although my roommate certainly managed to graduate and get a tenure-track job with at least one.)<br /><br />I've often wondered whether search committees could make head or tail of our transcripts. I'm not sure <i>I</i> can make head or tail of my transcript, come to think of it.Fretful Porpentinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165078003123517013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-49154940448969800922011-04-12T11:29:02.735-07:002011-04-12T11:29:02.735-07:00Cheers, Ewan. I stopped checking final grades alto...Cheers, Ewan. I stopped checking final grades altogether after the second semester in my (not English) PhD program as it became clear that there were other, much more important markers of growth and success. I had enough substantive interaction with my professors and advisor, and was reflective enough, to know where I stood and what I needed to work on. There's something disconcerting about adult grad students who haven't made that transition (and something screwy about programs that aren't structured or run in a way that makes this possible).-k-noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6648409483330236099.post-31037350520043897772011-04-12T11:06:40.337-07:002011-04-12T11:06:40.337-07:00So, I had a grad student (creative writing emphasi...So, I had a grad student (creative writing emphasis) in my Shakespeare class at warm-and-fuzzy school a couple of years ago. Her written responses for the articles I had them read were always way too informal, colloquial, and not really engaging with the material at all. I kept telling her that she needed to take the writing portion of the class more seriously. And she hardly ever spoke in class, too. <br /><br />I had my grad students write conference-style papers to present to the class. (There were four grad students in there that semester, out of 18 total students.) The other three grad students presented highly engaging, critical and well-researched papers. This student presented about how she wishes Hamlet were her boyfriend. (I gave a very generous B to that paper/presentation.) Then, she asked if she could write her final paper about how Elvis would have made a good Hamlet. I told her no, and said that while I understood that she was a creative writing person, this class was not a creative writing class. It was a literature class with objective more along scholarly lines of, you know, using sources, making an argument, and using critical analysis to understand Shakespeare better. She turned in a final paper on Hamlet that started out, "I didn't really understand Hamlet until I read the Cliff Notes version." WTF? It rambled on from there for 12 pages. There was no analysis. No argument. No sources. Just diddling about Hamlet. (He's the greatest -- did you know that??) The paper was supposed to be an argument-driven, 15-20 page paper. You know, like you do in grad school? I gave her a D on it. But the lowest grade I could give her for the class was a B-. (The graduate student grades on the computer grading system go no lower than that.) I happily gave her a B- for the final grade. <br /><br />Of course, she protested and contacted every single person imaginable -- chair, dean, etc. Fortunately, all the chair, dean, etc. had to do was read her final paper, and they were immediately on my side. She whined, "But this means I will have SO much trouble getting into a PhD program." My mental response was, "You should NEVER be admitted to a PhD program. Go fly a kite, for god's sake..." <br /><br />This was the only grad student I ever had in Shakespeare who was a complete nitwit. Everyone else was wonderful, insightful, and smart. This student should never have even been admitted for an MA. I never saw her creative writing, but if her weird attempts in my class spoke to its quality, I have no doubt that she would have to figure out something ELSE to do with her life. Quickly.Fie upon this quiet life!https://www.blogger.com/profile/12047096700049201873noreply@blogger.com